>Dr Norman Finkelstein. He is a Jew, whose parents survived the Holocaust. His stance is that Israel should NOT keep using the Holocaust to justify its atrocities against Palestinians. Oh, by the way, Israel has barred him (a Jew) from his own country. Israel has the policy to accept ALL JEWS who seek to “return to Israel” – yet he is barred?
Here is a Crosstalk Show. It is a discussion (if you can call that) between Dr Finkelstein and Dr Raana Gissen, former aid to Ariel Sharon (ex-PM of Israel). Note how evasive and aggressive Dr Gissen is. Are not Zionists always defensive about their war crimes?
CrossTalk: Norman Finkelstein vs. Israel
Highlights
2:15
Dr Finkelstein says there is a witch hunt for those who criticize Israel for its war crimes in the last Gazan assault. Israel has been downgraded in the area of freedom of speech in global polls – lower than Lebanon, UAE and Kuwait.
3:15
Moderator notes that Freedom House (one of those that downgraded Israel) usually supports Israel, yet the downgrade. Poses thought to the former aide to Ariel Sharon.
3:45
Dr Gissen evades posed question, proceeds to say Israel is not a “normal state” and it is an “endangered species” in a National Park and acts according to the threats it faces. But in the Park, there is freedom of speech. Maintains assault on Gaza is an act of self-defence. Says Israel was brought to court for it, but not other nations.
4:45
Finkelstein replies to “Israel not a normal state” comment. Says that is not something to be proud of – considering if it means it is always gearing up for war and killing innocent people. Says Israel is not a normal state but a lunatic state.
5:30
Moderator poses a question to Gissen about Finkelstein being banned from Israel for 10 years. Is he a security threat?
5:45
Gissene says that Finkelstein sounds like someone coming out from a hate website from Iran. Maintains that it is all propaganda.
6:20
Gissen says when his great-grandparents came to Israel, they came with bible in one hand and rifle in the other, with hand extended to Arabs. Those (Arabs) who fought had to meet the wrath of the rifle.
7:00
Finkelstein tries to reply, Gissen interrupts and says to Finkelstein that’s what happened in America too. Finkelstein replies the first Europeans who came to North America also came with rifle in hand because they had intention to displace the indigenous peoples. That is also why Jews in Europe went to Palestinian with rifle in hand, because the intention was not to live with the indigenous population, but to displace them.
8:32
Finkelstein says that today there still are possibilities for Israel to live in peace with whatever that remains of the indigenous population, but Israel refuses to abide to what is set out by international law.
8:45
Moderator poses question to Gissen, if Israel wants to live in peace with its neigbours and can Palestinians have their own state? Moderator notes that US and Israel are the only 2 states that consistently block this (formation of Independent Palestinian State).
9:15
Gissen instead of answering if Israel allows a Palestinian state, attacks Dr Finkelstein. Then talks about conflicts in the region. Mentions clashes between Shiites and Sunnis. Then quotes bible again to maintain the rights of Jews to have the land. Does not answer the question “does Israel allow a Palestinian state”?
10:25
Finkelstein to Gissen: If my family came with bible in hand and say this is my home because my ancestors lived here 2000 years ago, would you pack and leave?
10:45 to 13:40
Break. View it if you wish. It has a moving short documentary on Kosovo followed by how US soldiers kill innocents including children – then live to regret it.
14:40
How Russia views the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
15:50
Finkelstein notes that Arab states and other states willing to give Israel under international law its rights to existence of a state. But on the other hand, Israel refuses to recognize Palestinians have a right to their state under the same international law.
16:35
Gissen replies. Or does he? Talks about Holocaust deniers instead of addressing Finkelstein’s point of non-recognition of Palestine by Israel, which Palestinians have a right under international law.
18:00
Gissen says Article 51 gives every country the right to self defence, but Israel is the only country to be brought to international court for self-defence under Article 51. Questions validity of trying to get Israel to international court, because Israel has right to defend itself.
18:20
Finkelstein replies that the recommendation to bring Israel to court is NOT because of the right Israel has to defend itself, BUT for the war crimes it committed. The reason why Israel should be taken to court is because of the systematic targetting of civilians. Gissen again tries to interrupt and denies the systematic targetting of civilians.
19:30
Finkelstein gives example of Israeli official (Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni) boasting about the war it had with Gazans. Gissen says that information is from Hamas website. Finkelstein says that Hamas was quoting Tzipi Livni’s words from Israel’s own mainstream news.
20:30
Gissen says that he does not know what statements Livni made. (Yeah, sure… then how does he know it was from Hamas website, huh?) Debate deteriorates.
21:00
Moderator cuts in. Asks Gissen if what Norman Finkelstein says is true or not true (that Livni boasted about the war). Note Gissen does not reply to that question but rattles on with unrelated topics.
22:00
Gissen says Hamas tampered with the evidence (that Livni said those words) in order to prove Israel is the criminal. (Now, surely he had to know Livni’s words to make that allegation! So why did he deny he heard Livni’s words?)
22:15
Finkelstein highlights that The Goldstone Report found that 1400 people were killed in the last Gaza Massacre, out of which 4/5 were civilians. 6000 homes destroyed. 80% of agricultural crops destroyed. The only flour mill destroyed. Israel used tanks to mow down 50,000 chickens. (Wiping out food for the Gazans?) Compare that to Israel’s own investigation, it found only one crime – a soldier fraudulently used a credit card.
24:15
Gissen given the last word. Insists Hamas staged this event to discredit Israel. Says Hamas uses human shields (old story huh? – but how do you expect 1 million over people, confined in a space 1/3 the size of Singapore to hide when the bombs come? Isn’t this targetting civilians deliberately as in the Goldstone Report?)
Note:
The Goldstone Report, which Finkelstein referred to and which Gissen denies the allegations reported, is an investigative report that found Israel criminally liable against the Palestinian civilians during the last Gazan invasion.
Regarding Tzipi Livni words, which Raana Gissen denies he heard, here it is – published by an ISRAELI tabloid. What kind of aide to the former PM of Israel was he, not knowing that such an event was reported?
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1058462.html
This war unmasked Livni, the woman who had promised us “different politics.” She, who as foreign minister was supposed to show Israel’s sunny side to the world, chose to present an arrogant, violent and brutal face. During the war she boasted that Israel was acting “savagely,” threatened to let Hamas “have it” and announced that the cease-fire would come into effect “whenever Israel decides.”
Incidentally, Hamas is the DEMOCRATICALLY elected govt of Gaza. Who is Israel (or US) to interfere by trying to “savagely let them have it”? How would you feel if a foreign govt threatens to remove YOUR govt with violence?
Solo Bear’s own Comments
I find many Christians and to some extent non-Christians in Singapore appear to have this unquestioning “love for Israel” for some unexplained, bizarre reason. Maybe it is due to the fact that Singapore has strong ties with US (and Israel), and because of that, the mainstream media in Singapore portrays Israel as the angels, when many parts of the world are beginning to swing against Israel.
Non-supporters (like myself) of Zionism do not call for the eradication of Israel. All we ask is why can’t the Palestinians have their land, which has been stated clearly under the UN Resolution that was spelt out in 1947 – the very same resolution Israel claims to have a right to that land?
All the fighting Israel has had with the Palestinians are in Palestinian Lands. It is not that Palestinians are encroaching into Israel. It is Israel has occupied land meant for Palestinians and the Palestinians are just asking for their land back.
What I find bizarre is this undying love these Christians have for Israel, when it is shown that Israel has been killing innocent people, women and children included, callously.
